Lorenzo Saunders was born on June 7, 1811 in Palmyra. He was the third son and fifth child of Enoch Saunders and Abigail Holmes.
The Saunders Family moved to Palmyra
In 1791, Enoch Saunders moved to Palmyra from Connecticut. He worked for Captain John Swift, the founder of Palmyra. A 1791 Indenture shows that Enoch Saunders bought 50 acres of land from Captain Swift for $205. (This is the same land that puts the Saunders family close neighbors to the Joseph Smith Sr. family. The Saunders farm joined the Smith property on the northeast corner, placing them also next to the property of Willard Chase.) When title to the 50
acres was secure, Enoch returned to Connecticut to gather his wife and children to settle with him in Palmyra. (Three of Enoch’s generations—son, grandson, and great-grandson—lived on his 50 acres for over a hundred years.)[1]
Anti-Mormon sources tell of Joseph Smith excavating a cave, known to later Manchester residents as “Miner’s Hill” on the Enoch Saunders property. (The cave was called “Miner’s Hill” because at one point it was owned by Amos Miner and his heirs). According to Lorenzo Saunders, his father Enoch was the first owner of the cave.[2]
On April 5, 1825, Enoch Saunders was elected an overseer of highways in Palmyra along with Joel Thayer, Martin Harris, Oliver Durfee, and William Durfee.[3] Six months later, on October 10, 1825 Enoch Saunders died. This left the Saunders’ family with four surviving children—Orlando age 22, Melissa age 20, Lorenzo age 14, and Benjamin age 12. Lorenzo remembered the Smiths as “kind neighbors” during the sickness and subsequent death of his father Enoch.
Twenty-two year old Orlando Saunders took over the Enoch Saunders farm at the passing of his father. On January 26, 1826, Melissa Saunders married Willard Chase, a local carpenter and joiner by trade. Lorenzo, like his brother-in-law Willard Chase, took up the trade of carpentry. Unlike Willard Chase, Lorenzo joined the Western Presbyterian Church of Palmyra. (Willard was a Methodist class leader in town.) Lorenzo claimed that he attended the Presbyterian Sunday School with Joseph Smith Jr. (In searching the records of the Presbyterian Sunday School, the name of Joseph Smith Jr. is missing).
Orlando Saunders and Lorenzo Saunders’ claim knowledge of Joseph Smith
The neighborly proximity of the Saunders family to the Joseph Smith Sr. family sets the stage for the Saunders being well-acquainted with the Smiths. In the 1880s, Orlando Saunders, who was two years older than Joseph Smith Jr., was interviewed on two separate occasions—once by Frederick G. Mather and the other time by William H. Kelley. The two interviews are in remarkable agreement. Mather reported Orlando Saunders as saying “that the Smith family worked for his father and for himself. They have all worked for me many a day.” Mather also reported that Orlando talked of specific business dealings with the Smiths, namely the purchase of a horse and a bridle, the latter being paid for with “a Bible.” Orlando also spoke of Joseph Smith working for him and that he was a good worker. He felt a kindness towards the Smiths due to their assistance when his father died. Orlando was aware of treasure hunting in Palmyra and said, “Joseph Smith believed in witchcraft.”[4]
The June 1, 1881 interview of Orlando Saunders by William H. Kelley was more detailed—
We at once drove to the house of Mr. Orlando Saunders, and found that gentleman, with his wife and two sons, at supper. Mr. Saunders is a man seventy-eight years old, in April 1881; a fair type of the intelligent New York farmer; seemingly well-to-do in this world’s goods, and quite active for a man of his years; and withal, has an honest and thoughtful face.
Entering upon conversation with reference to our business, Mr. Saunders at once said, “Well, you have come to a poor place to find out anything. I don’t know anything against these men, myself.” (Evidently judging that we wanted to get something against them, only.
Were you acquainted with them, Mr. Saunders?
“Yes, sir; I knew all of the Smith family well; there were six boys; Alvin, Hyrum, Joseph, Harrison, William, and Carlos, and there were two girls; the old man was a cooper; they have all worked for me many a day; they were very good people; Young Joe, (as we called him then), has worked for me, and he was a good worker; they all were. I did not consider them good managers about business, but they were poor people; the old man had a large family.”
In what respect did they differ from other people, if at all?
“I never noticed that they were different from other neighbors; they were the best family in the neighborhood in case of sickness; one was at my house nearly all the time when my father died; I always thought them honest; they were owing me some money when they left here; that is, the old man and Hyrum did, and Martin Harris. One of them came back in about a year and paid me.”
How were they as to habits of drinking and getting drunk?
“Everybody drank a little in those days, and the Smiths with the rest; they never got drunk to my knowledge.”
What kind of a man was Martin Harris?
“He was an honorable man. Martin Harris was one of the first men of the town.”
How well did you know young Joseph Smith?
“Oh! Just as well as one could very well; he has worked for me many-a-time, and been about my place a great deal. He stopped with me many-a-time, when through here, after they went west to Kirtland; he was always a gentleman when about my place.”
What did you know about his finding that book, or the plates in the hill over here?
“He always claimed that he saw the angel and received the book; but I don’t know anything about it. Have seen it, but never read it as I know of; didn’t care anything about it.”
Well; you seem to differ a little from a good many of the stories told about these people.
“I have told you just what I know about them, and you will have to go somewhere else for a different story.”[5]
In contrast to the Orlando Saunders interview were the remembrances of his brother Lorenzo Saunders. In a letter to Thomas Gregg on January 28, 1885 printed in Charles A. Shook in The True Origin of the Book of Mormon, Lorenzo said:
After [he] went from the house, my mother says “What a liar Joseph Smith is; he lies every word he says; I know he lies because he looks so guilty; he can’t see out of his eyes; how dare [he] tell such a lie as that.”
The time he claimed to have taken the plates from the hill was on the 22 day of September, in 1827. [Lorenzo concluded that the plates were nothing more than “panes of glass with a tile in it, about 7 x 8 inches, and that was the gold plates. He also concluded that “Martin Harris didn’t know a gold plate from a brick at this time.”[6]
Lorenzo Saunders’ Recollection of Sally Chase and Stones
In his November 12, 1884 interview with E. L. Kelley, Lorenzo Saunders spoke of the Sally Chase peep stone and Joseph Smith’s seer stone—
Willard Chase claimed his sister Sally had a peep stone. The Lord bless you I have seen her peep stone a hundred times; it was a little bit of stone & it was green & she would hold it before light. After I left there, it was thirty years ago:—after I left there I can not tell you whether the peep stone was used or not . . . as I told Jo. Smith when he dug one out of a well on Chases Farm in the Shape of a baby’s foot. They dug that hole for money. Chase’s and Smiths altogether was digging. I knew all about the stone; Edmund Chase told me all about it, He lives here now, this side of Kalamazoo. He is a man older than I am. His name is Edmund Chase.[7]
Lorenzo Saunders’ Recollection of Joseph Smith and the angel Moroni
In the interview of Lorenzo Saunders on November 12, 1884 with E .L. Kelley, Lorenzo spoke of the death of Alvin Smith and the angel Moroni:
Mr. L.S.: Jo. Smith told the story but he told so many stories, it was a hard thing to get the fact in any way or shape. Now I can tell you what he told to our house respecting this revelation that he had in the very commencement before Alvin died, his brother; Sometime before this he claimed that he saw the Angel & that he was notified of these plates & all that & the time would be made known to him but it was not at that time made known to him but he must take his oldest brother & go to the spot & he could obtain them. Before that time his oldest brother died. Jo. Smith got that revelation a year or two before that. I do not know as I can’t tell what year Alvin died in[.] It was in the summer before Alvin died he told it at our house. Perhaps Mrs. Smith has got the date of Alvin’s death in her record. After that Alvin died; Then Joseph said that he saw the angel again; The Angel told him he must go & get him a wife & then he could take his wife & go & get the plates. & he pretended he must get a black horse or a mule to go & get the plates[.] We went there & we examined the hill all over where he claimed to get the plates & we could not find a place that was broke & there was no plates on the ground where the hill was not broke.
Lorenzo Saunders’ Recollection of 1827
In the interview on November 12, 1884 with E .L. Kelley, Lorenzo Saunders claimed that at age sixteen he saw Peter Ingersoll making sugar from maple trees on the Smith farm in early 1827. With Ingersoll were a number of neighbors and an unknown well-dressed man. Saunders was told the well-dressed man was Sidney Rigdon—
E.L.K.: So you saw Rigdon in 1827?
A[nswer]: Yes sir.
[E.L.K.]: Is not it possible that it was in 1830?
Mr. L.S.: No. because it was when Jo. Smith claimed to get the plates. [which was September of 1827].
In the summer of 1828, Lorenzo claimed to see Sidney Rigdon at the home of Samuel Lawrence just before harvest: “I was cutting corn for Lawrence and went to dinner and he took dinner with us and when dinner was over they went into another room and I didn’t see him again till he came to Palmyra to preach.”[8] Wanting to validate his account, Lorenzo Saunders suggested to E. L. Kelley, “Abel Chase testified that he thought he saw Rigdon before that time [1830], but was not certain.”
The Year 1828
Lorenzo had an opinion of what happened to the pages that has been repeated again and again by Latter-day Saint historians and anti-Mormon sources. In the 1884 interview with E. L. Kelley, Lorenzo said,
I know what course [Lucy Harris] took, and when she burned up those papers. I heard her say she burned the papers, she was pretty high on combativeness. . . . She says she burned them up. And there was no mistake, but she did. They never was found; never come to light. I lived till I was 43 years old right there [in Palmyra]; and she never denied burning the papers, he [Martin] brought them home to proselyte her and she burned them.”[9]
Let’s break his statement apart. Lorenzo was age seventeen when the pages were stolen. What are the chances he heard Lucy Harris say “she burned the pages” especially when her own confession is missing? Would she confide her secret in a teenager who was living with his older brother on fifty acres when she was a woman of means? I think not. As for the issue of Lorenzo continuing to live in Palmyra for forty-three years, he did not hobnob with Lucy Harris for the forty-three years. Lucy Harris died in 1836 when Lorenzo was age twenty-five.
Lorenzo Saunders in the 1830s in Palmyra
By 1833 Lorenzo Saunders was giving serious thought to moving to Detroit, Michigan. On June 8, 1833, “Lorenzo Saunders of Wayne County, New York had deposited in the General Land Office a certificate of the Register of the Land at Detroit [Michigan] in full payment. The land was 80 acres.”[10] It is assumed that his courtship and subsequent marriage changed his plans to move out of the Palmyra area.
On July 17, 1833 at age twenty-two, Lorenzo Saunders married Calista (Celestia) Tabor in Palmyra. She was five years his junior, being born on August 16, 1816. Rather than move out of Palmyra with his bride as he had planned, Lorenzo was placed in such a favorable financial position by his father-in-law, Benjamin Tabor, that he changed his mind. His father-in-law took advantage of the foreclosure on the Abner Cole properties and purchased “Manchester Lot 2 with 95 acres.” Five months after Lorenzo married his daughter, on January 12, 1834 Benjamin Tabor deeded to Lorenzo Saunders “Manchester Lot 2 with 95 acres” for $3,000. What are the chances that twenty-two year old Lorenzo had $3,000 to give to his father-in-law? None! The land was a gift and an enticement to Lorenzo to put aside his plans to move to Michigan.
The property acquisition was a big financial windfall for Lorenzo. In 1835, he was assessed $6.94 in taxes on Manchester Lot 2 with 95 acres because this property increased in value to $3,610. What was no doubt a disappointment to his father-in-law, Lorenzo did not keep the acreage long. He subdivided the land after owning it for less than a year. In 1835, Lorenzo granted a deed to a portion of the acreage to Parley Chase, brother of Willard Chase.[11] In 1837, he granted another portion of the acreage to Benjamin Partridge and Parley Chase.[12] In 1839, he granted two deeds—one to Amos Miner (land that included the Miner Cave)[13] and the other to Pomeroy Tucker.[14] In 1840, he granted another deed to Lucas G. Buckley.[15]
Lorenzo Saunders in the 1840s
With money in his pockets from the sale of land that had once been owned by Abner Cole, in 1840 at age twenty-nine, Lorenzo Saunders started to move in influential circles in Palmyra. He built the first cider mill in Palmyra and was given an official license to open a grocery store on Main Street signed by Pomeroy Tucker, president of the Palmyra Village. In that same year, Lorenzo was listed in the 1840 US Federal Census as having a household of one male age 5-9, five males age 20-29, one female under age 5, three females age 20-29, and one female age 40-49. Of the eleven people in his household, five were laborers working at his establishments. The cider mill and grocery store did not succeed to Lorenzo’s satisfaction.
In 1842, Lorenzo subdivided the remainder of the land given him by his father-in-law. In 1842, he granted a deed to Edwin P. Goddard.[16] On May 9, 1842, a mortgage was executed by Edwin O. Goddard to Lorenzo Saunders and duly assigned to subscriber, Parmelia Taber, for $200.[17] In 1843, Lorenzo granted a deed to Barnet B. Johnston.[18]
Lorenzo was listed in the 1850 US Federal Census as a thirty-nine year old carpenter with $2,250 in real wealth. What we learn from this census is that in spite of his many land dealings, Lorenzo’s profit margin was negligible. His last land transaction in Palmyra was on February 24, 1854—a deed to Samuel Akers.[19]
In his series of property transactions, Lorenzo sold out of Palmyra and was ready to move onto Michigan and join his younger brother Benjamin Saunders, who had moved to Hillsdale County, Michigan in 1850. (It appears from the records that Lorenzo was closer to his younger brother than he was to his oldest brother Orlando).
By 1854 Lorenzo Saunders was in Michigan
Lorenzo took his family to Michigan and settled in Wheatland, Hillsdale County. There, he purchased two tracks of land equaling 70 acres on April 15, 1854. In Wheatland, he labored as a farmer, carpenter, and joiner until 1863.[20] During those years, he served in either a community or county position. He was appointed a commissioner of highways in Wheatland in 1855[21] and the treasurer of Hillsdale County in 1856.[22]
Two years after his move to Michigan, on August 6, 1856 his wife Celeste Saunders died at age 44 years, 2 months, 28 days old.[23] She was buried in the Cambria Cemetery in Hillsdale County. It appears that Celeste died from childbirth complications. Evidence for this assumption is the 1860 US Federal Census which lists only Lorenzo and his children—Albert Saunders age 15, Lorenzo G. Saunders age 4 ½, Lucy A. Cram Saunders age 11, and James F. Cram Saunders age 5.[24] The census also lists Lorenzo as a 49 year old man with a real wealth of $1,800 and a personal wealth of $478. The curious entry in the census record is that a Lucina age 37 was living with him. Lorenzo did not marry Lucina (Lucinda) Caine, widow of Am. M. Caine, who was eleven years his junior until June 1, 1867. It can be assumed that Lucina moved in with Lorenzo Saunders to care for the children.
Although Lorenzo moved from town to town in Michigan, he always resided in Hillsdale County. In 1863, he moved to the rural township of Reading. His house was about a mile-and-a-half south of the Reading Village.[25] In 1880, he was in Camden and in 1883, in Cambria.
As he aged, Lorenzo became a supporter of the Republican Party, but never financially.[26] By 1870, he had a personal wealth of $400 and no real wealth. In 1880, he was listed on the US Federal Census as having been unemployed for six months. Lorenzo never regained employment and never was financially independent from this point forward. Fortunately for him, he had three children and their spouses living in Hillsdale County who helped him and his second wife stay in their own home.
It was after Lorenzo Saunders was unemployed that he was interviewed and wrote a letter about Lucy Harris burning the 116 pages, Sally Chase having a peep stone, Joseph Smith having a seer stone. He presented the theory that Sidney Rigdon had an acquaintance with Joseph Smith before 1830. Can we allow Lorenzo Saunders, a charity case in the 1880s, to dictate history that occurred fifty-seven years before his interview or letter? He died three to four years after writing the letter and having the interview. Questions: Did the interviewer have a pre-conceived response already prepared? The letter was extremely well-written. Was it edited?
Lorenzo Saunders died at his own residence on February 10, 1888 in Cambria, Hillsdale County at age seventy-six. His funeral was conducted by Reverend L. S. Parmelee.[27] He was buried in the Cambria Cemetery #1 in Cambria, Michigan. On September 14, 1895, Lorenzo’s wife, Lucina Caine Saunders, died.
Children of Lorenzo and Calista Saunders
1. Frederick Augustus Saunders (October 20, 1834–August 21, 1911). He was a machinist and mill worker. He married Louisa Bailey (1834–1889) on October 4, 1856 in Lenawee, Michigan. He later married Jane A. Haynes (1848–1908) on May 14, 1890 in Lenawee, Michigan. He purchased a farm adjoining his father’s farm in Palmyra, and engaged in threshing. He helped his father build the first cider mill in Palmyra. He built a plant for manufacturing lumber and equipped it with turning laves and saws. He followed his father to Wheatland, Michigan, where he was credited with building the first steam engine in the area. He later moved to Addison, Michigan, where he built a large mill. The mill was destroyed in 1893 by a fire, an estimated loss of $10,000. Frederick rebuilt the mill. At one point, he was in the electric white-wiring business of a telephone company before turning to building boats and launches. Like his father Lorenzo, Frederick was a staunch supporter of the Republican Party. He died of heart disease and pneumonia
2. Harriet E. Saunders (1839–October 4, 1900). She married Leonard Hall Bailey of Wheatland (1837–1909) on November 2, 1856 in Hillsdale, Michigan. Harriet lived in Wheatland, Michigan. She died of chronic bronchitis at 61 years, 7 months, 18 days.
3. Mary Alice Saunders (1838–1904). She married George Henry Losey (1838–1927) on December 18, 1859 in Lenawee, Michigan.
4. Albert Saunders (February 1845–August 28, 1903). He married Mary Ann Losey (1844–1927) in 1867 in Michigan. Albert was a farmer in Reading, Michigan. He died of heart disease and heart inflammation at 58 years, 6 months, 11 days.[28]
Children of Lorenzo and Lucinda Saunders
1. Jay S. Saunders (1860). He was a farmer.
[1] Larry C. Porter and Donald L. Enders, “Palmyra,” Ensign, January 1989.
[2] Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:140.
[3] “Minutes—Town of Palmyra—1825.”
[4] Quinn, Early Mormonism and the Magic World, p. 31; Smith, Joseph Smith History by His Mother, p, 67; Barrett, Young Joseph, p. 56; Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:102, 150.
[5] William H. Kelley, “The Hill Cumorah and the Book of Mormon,” The Saints’ Herald (Plano, IL), June 1, 1881, 161–168.
[6] Lorenzo Saunders, Letter to Thomas Gregg, 28 January 1885, in Shook, The True Origin of the Book of Mormon, 134–135.
[7] Lorenzo Saunders, Interviewed by E. L. Kelley, November 12, 1884, pp. 8–9, in E. L. Kelley Papers.
[8] Letter to Thomas Gregg written by Lorenzo Saunders, January 18, 1885 in Reading, MI.
[9] Letter to Thomas Gregg written by Lorenzo Saunders, January 18, 1885 in Reading, MI.
[10] United States of America, Commissioner of the General Land Office. Deed in authors’ possession.
[11] Ontario County, NY Grantee Deed Index, 1789–1845.
[12] Ontario County, NY Grantee Deed Index, 1789–1845.
[13] Ontario County, NY Grantee Deed Index, 1789–1845.
[14] Hillsdale County, Michigan, Granter, 25:239; Ontario County, NY Grantee Deed Index, 1789–1845.
[15] Hillsdale County, Michigan, Granter, 28:80.
[16] Hillsdale County, Michigan, Granter, 31:102.
[17] “Mortgage Sale,” Wayne Sentinel, March 13, 1844.
[18] Hillsdale County, Michigan, Granter, 33:370.
[19] Hillsdale County, Michigan, Granter, 60:262.
[20] History of Hillsdale County, Michigan, p. 446; Memoirs of Lenawee County, p. 536.
[21] Everts and Abbott, History of Hillsdale County, 1879, p. 194.
[22] Everts and Abbott, History of Hillsdale County, 1879, p. 194.
[23] Hillsdale County Records, vol. 2.
[24] US Selected Federal Census Non Population Schedules, 1850–1880.
[25] History of Hillsdale County, Michigan, p. 446.
[26] Memoirs of Lenawee County, p. 537.
[27] “Lorenzo Saunders . . .,” Reading Telephone, February 17, 1888.
[28] Michigan Death Records, 1867–1950; Michigan Certificate and Record of Death.